Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Solved Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by EdgarEg on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:40 am

Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately? Best group about 1.4 inches.
My rifle is a Savage model 16. See specs on it here:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/16FCSS

So I loaded up 100 rounds of .223 Remington ammo and took it to the range. I put the same powder charge in every cartridge - 25 grains of BL-C(2).

All 100 of the brass cases were from a batch of 100 Lapua cases I bought and had fired once before.

I tried 10 of each of these bullets:

53 grain HP Match 1400 Sierra OAL=2.2
40 grain SP Spitzer tip Speer OAL=2.04
35 grain LeadFree Spitzer P/N 45150 Nosler OAL=2.27
52 grain HPBT Match 1410 Sierra OAL=2.2
55 grain PSP W/C Remington OAL=2.2
55 grain SP #2265 Hornady OAL=2.25
55 grain 55 MC Remington OAL=2.2
55 grain PLHP W/C Remington OAL=2.165
35 grain LeadFree Spitzer P/N 45150 Nosler OAL=2.27
34 grain FBHP Midway Dogtown bullets Midway OAL=2.13


So that is 20 groups of five shot groups. The best group I got was from this bullet:
55 grain SP #2265 Hornady

See the target here:


Looks like if I'd held the calipers right it would have been about 1.4 inches.

My front rest was a red plastic thing made by MTM. My rear rest was a leather bunny ear thing that I bought at the gun range.

My rifle did come with the Accu-Trigger and the Accu-Stock. However it appears that it did not come with the Accu-Shooter. :-)

I was hoping for a group less than an inch. Got any suggestions?

EdgarEg
Member
Member

Posts: 562
Join date: 2010-12-17

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by dartfreak75 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:03 pm

how far was you shooting? how is the trigger the trigger can make a huge difference have you tried any other powder combos? i know in my 30-06 i could not get good groups out of bl-c2 but i could with varget but dads 308 shot bl-c2 great! i would try diffenent powders and charges if you cant get them tighter id try adjusting the trigger!

dartfreak75
Member
Member

Posts: 1182
Join date: 2010-11-21
Age: 29
Location: southwest va

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by Daywalker on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:23 pm

There is a number of things that it could be. Pin Pointing it will take some time and playing around.

Some of things to think about:

Matching the grainage of the bullet to the rate of twist to your particular barrel.

Trying different types of powders. I like Tac when loading for .223 in AR platform....

Try checking for any screws that might be loose. Stock might be loose, the scope rings could be loose ect....

How does that rifle group with factory ammo? I know, we reload not to shoot factory, however, if you try factory and it shoots better than reloads, then you know there is hope... Base test I guess you could say...

There are alot of variables that will effect accuracy. Especially when I hear that the Savage is an excellent platform... I plan on getting a Savage one day in .308......

My shooting rest is all plastic and costed less than 20 bucks, it has not affected my accuracy at all even tho I have been told to stay away from plastic. Mine is a one piece tho and not a 2 piece so I really can not comment on that particular shooting rest...

What was the weather like?

_________________
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

Daywalker
Admin
Admin

Posts: 2320
Join date: 2010-10-18
Location: Virginia

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by eagle60 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:29 pm

I put the same powder charge in every cartridge - 25 grains of BL-C(2).

This is the first thing that I noticed, among all weights you used the same charge. I've never used the BL-C(2) so I can't judge how that powder will work, I use 25.0 gr of H335 from Hodgden. Both are very close in the burn rates.
While 25 grains may be close to the correct charge for a 55 gr sp projectile, it may take 26 or 27 grains for a 40 grain projectile. For heavier bullets like a 62 you would use less than 25 grains of powder. This is a link to the hodgden site, however, I didn't see too much info on the BL-C powder. Keep in mind that some of the "guest" submitted entries may be at maximum loads for a given bullet..

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=223%20Remington&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

My suggestion would be to match the powder charge to the weight of the bullet you are loading and run through the tests again. You may be pleasantly surprised.

it is amazing to watch the group close up when using the same projectile and changing the powder charge a little at a time. You may try backing off the 25 gr of BL-C a few tenths of a grain to see if that helps or hurts.

Anyway, that is my .02 and I have been wrong before.....

eagle60
Member
Member

Posts: 965
Join date: 2011-01-03
Location: East Central MS

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by RemMan700 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:41 pm

Don't loose hope. It takes ALOT of trial and error with different bullets and powders to find a good load. I would say that it would be easier to pick one or two bullets (one you want to use for hunting and one you want to use for plinking) at a time to try to find a load by ladder testing. Also any bullet that is 55gr or heavier I would seat at 2.26" to start with. Two bullets I have had good luck with are the 55gr Hornady VMAX and the 65gr Sierra Game Kings.

RemMan700
Mod

Posts: 778
Join date: 2010-10-18
Location: Texas

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by Reload3006 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:21 pm

I have a Savage model 12 Varminter it absolutely will not shoot anything under 62gr with any accuracy at all. I have several boxes and bags of 55gr bullets that will be on the shelf for a while. If you have the 1:9 twist barrel that I would bet you have try a 62gr I think you will be surprised.

Reload3006
Member
Member

Posts: 1761
Join date: 2010-11-19
Age: 55
Location: West Plains, Mo. , St. Louis ,Mo.

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by XbonesX on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:56 pm

1. Whose data did you use? A 1:9 seems like a strange twist rate to me for a bolt action rifle in that caliber, I'd have assumed 1:12. If you used Hodgdons data they list using a 1:12 barrel in their data.

2. At that twist rate I wouldnt use a 55gr bullet but go up into the 69-75gr range like others have suggested.

3. I personaly have not had good luck w/ BL-C(2), even though Hodgdon touts it as a great 223 powder. Like others have suggest I'd go with Varget, or something like TAC by Western Powders.

4. I wouldnt pick 1 powder charge (in this case 25gr) and try and use it across multiple bullets, you have to tune each load to the bullet.

_________________

XbonesX
Mod

Posts: 964
Join date: 2010-10-18
Location: Utah

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by XbonesX on Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:05 pm

The other thing I just noticed and maybe the biggest, is by looking at the Hodgdon data you were UNDER the minimum charge for all the groups you tested. Now this could vary based upon the reloading data you used.

However, it is never a good idea to go below established minimum or above maximum load data unless you have followed proper load development techniques.

_________________

XbonesX
Mod

Posts: 964
Join date: 2010-10-18
Location: Utah

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by Rick459 on Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:27 pm

with a 1in9 twist you need to go up to a 62 or 69 grain bullet and according to the link you provided for your rifle spec's it shows the .223 to be a 1in9 twist

Rick459
Member
Member

Posts: 142
Join date: 2011-05-01
Age: 65
Location: So.Cal

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by hawcer on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:31 am

Reload3006 wrote:I have a Savage model 12 Varminter it absolutely will not shoot anything under 62gr with any accuracy at all. I have several boxes and bags of 55gr bullets that will be on the shelf for a while. If you have the 1:9 twist barrel that I would bet you have try a 62gr I think you will be surprised.

That is all you need to know right there!

My Savage 12vf with a 1-9" twist loves 69gr projectiles and absolutely detests 55gr FMJ. The only other projectile under 60gr that I can get good groups with is the 52gr Hornady A-Max....dime sized groups at 100 yards and almost exact same poi as my 69gr loads.

I only use Varget...toward the max end of the spectrum provided the best results.


_________________
You are finally comfortable with your casting capabilities when you find yourself casting boolits with sandals on!

hawcer
Mod

Posts: 1896
Join date: 2010-11-04
Age: 42

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by kcatto on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:39 am

geez I would add something but everything I could think of has all ready be said....

just remember working up the load should be just as much fun as when you have the load....

kcatto
Member
Member

Posts: 648
Join date: 2010-11-15
Age: 42
Location: Oklahoma

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by dartfreak75 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:38 pm

Reload3006 wrote:I have a Savage model 12 Varminter it absolutely will not shoot anything under 62gr with any accuracy at all. I have several boxes and bags of 55gr bullets that will be on the shelf for a while. If you have the 1:9 twist barrel that I would bet you have try a 62gr I think you will be surprised.
that was my next sugestion going up in weight we had that problem out of my buddys 243

dartfreak75
Member
Member

Posts: 1182
Join date: 2010-11-21
Age: 29
Location: southwest va

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by wallenba on Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:16 pm

Rick459 wrote:with a 1in9 twist you need to go up to a 62 or 69 grain bullet and according to the link you provided for your rifle spec's it shows the .223 to be a 1in9 twist

Yep, what Rick said. Same thing in my .223 MGM barreled 24'' Contender rifle. The heavier the bullet, the longer the bore ride is.

wallenba

Posts: 74
Join date: 2011-03-28
Age: 62
Location: Southeast Michigan

Back to top Go down

Solved SOLVED! Heavier bullets was the answer.

Post by EdgarEg on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:18 am

SOLVED! Heavier bullets was the answer.
Thanks everybody for your help!
I bought some heavier bullets.

The Hornady and Sierra shot well. I had all groups that were 1.2 and 1.3 inches and better with Hornady and Sierra.

For me that is good. With the lighter bullets I had one 1.4 inch group and all the other groups were bigger.

I could not get the Nosler and Midway bullets to shoot as well. Here is a Nosler group that is 3 inches.


All shots were 100 yards.

So I think I will sight my rifle in for the Sierra 69 gr HPBT Match bullet.


Last edited by EdgarEg on Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:11 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : location of Google Documents pix changed. I do not know why)

EdgarEg
Member
Member

Posts: 562
Join date: 2010-12-17

Back to top Go down

Solved Re: Why can't I get my Savage rifle to shoot more accurately?

Post by Daywalker on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:43 am

That is some great news..... Congrats on getting the groups better with the heavier bullets!!!!!

_________________
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams

Daywalker
Admin
Admin

Posts: 2320
Join date: 2010-10-18
Location: Virginia

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum